Minister Antonio Tajani, how did Ben Gvir’s videos make you feel?
I am outraged. Israel has the right to defend itself, but it does not have the right to humiliate prisoners, defenceless people who have not committed acts of violence and who are not terrorists – says the Minister of Foreign Affairs -. It is one thing to maintain a naval blockade, but it is quite another to question people’s dignity and safety. I am particularly sorry for the people of Israel, who do not deserve a minister like Ben Gvir. Italy, however, is asking the Israeli Government for an account of what has happened.
You have summoned the Ambassador, not for the first time: is there a breaking point that justifies more decisive measures regarding relations between Italy and Israel?
I do not think that we should have a race to see who make the most spectacular gesture. For us, however, a “red line” has been crossed. I believe that we must make it very clear to our Israeli interlocutors that incidents such as this exacerbate Israel’s isolation even towards its most friendly countries. We will assess our political attitude. We will also look at what we can do in Europe. Even those who do not agree with and consider the campaigns of the flotillas to be provocative cannot tolerate unarmed citizens being treated in this way. We told the Ambassador we summoned yesterday that the Italian Government is demanding that Israel guarantee the physical safety and immediate repatriation of all civilians arrested by Israeli armed forces.
Netanyahu has partly distanced himself from Ben Gvir, but is his leadership, as well as his “armed” alliance with Trump, no longer a structural problem for Europe’s liberal democracies?
Not only Prime Minister Netanyahu, but also Foreign Minister Gideon Sa’ar, in very harsh and stern words too, distanced himself from Ben Gvir’s behaviour. We have taken this as a positive sign, but it does not resolve the underlying issue of who is responsible for what happened. Italy does not have the right to interfere in the electoral processes in Israel, Israeli citizens have the right to choose freely who they wish to be governed by. And Israel must be able to defend its citizens. What I think and hope is that the next Israeli Government, whatever it is, will take more account than in the recent past of the need to prevent abuse, provocation, violence against the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza as well as in the West Bank, including Christians, that in the Middle East are a voice of peace.
Meanwhile, the echo of the events of Modena is not extinguished. In that city, two sides of the country have manifested themselves: now that the initial emotional reaction has subsided, which one do you think prevails?
As I said, for me, what prevails is the aspect of someone who is a true citizen through and through, someone who helps, aids and defends fellow citizens. Faced with such a senselessly violent act against defenceless passers-by, public outrage is a perfectly understandable reaction. However, apart from the possible psychiatric problem – as the doctors will tell us – two aspects must never be forgotten: legal liability is individual and cannot be traced by analogy to those who perhaps have the same origins or religious beliefs. In any case, the person responsible for this insane act is an Italian citizen born in Italy. Of course, we cannot deny that there is a problem: that of radicalisation, which stems from slogans and hate speech that are widespread in some sectors of Islam in Italy. It is in this context that a mindset prone to violence can develop, which may lead a fragile mind to commit a criminal act. In any case, one thing is clear: no form of racism is acceptable in Italy, whether it is directed by Italians towards foreigners or by foreigners towards Italians.
Two different lines emerged among the majority parties: FdI and FI are careful, the Lega is tackling residence permits. Is this the right way to deal with such complex news stories?
No, migration is a matter of historic importance that must not be trivialised for the sake of political controversy or propaganda. Neither do-gooderism nor a tough stance help solve a complex and multifaceted problem.
The issue of citizenship for foreigners has also resurfaced: Forza Italia in the centre-right was making a more advanced proposal than the current rules, the Lega now calls for a tightening and FdI is in the middle: is it a chapter that can be reopened, and how?
We do not renounce our proposal on the Ius Italiae, but we also do not want it to be used as a grudge by the left to divide the majority. We want to build a consensus around a development of legislation that does not make concessions to anyone, that is not lax but that promotes integration and coexistence. We need good Italians, integrated and lovers of this nation. In our opinion, to have Italian citizenship you must have studied in Italy, have completed a ten-year school cycle with profit. Our goal is to encourage the learning and study of our language by those who feel a love for Italy and avoid giving citizenship to those who for ten years bivouac in stations, parks and commit crimes. We must reward those who study and are worthy.
The profile of the man who may have committed a murder in Modena on Saturday contains anti-Christian statements: setting aside any attempts to exploit the situation, do you believe such sentiments are widespread among second-generation immigrants, as your colleague Deputy Prime Minister Salvini affirms?
They may exist, but I repeat, one cannot make generalisations. There are many foreigners living in Italy who are wonderful people, law-abiding and keen to work and integrate. And then there are radical minorities who use hate speech, even against Christians, such as that used by the attacker in Modena. It is wrong to deny their existence, just as it is wrong to identify them with all Muslims.
Will these differences in tone and content emerge, in the centre-right, also for the vote on the end of life?
No difference, we have made a joint reflection in line with the recommendations of the Constitutional Court. There is a regulatory gap that we have a duty to fill. This is also to prevent the regions from acting in a disorganised manner. This is without prejudice to individual freedom but also to the fact that the first objective for all must be life and quality of life right up to the last moment.
Returning to the international front: peace, like an elastic band, is close one day and far away the next. Considering the distances from Trump, do you think that we now need a 360-degree European initiative between Ukraine and the Middle East, or is it utopia?
A European initiative is not only necessary today in the face of the emergency: it has been necessary for many years, even in more “ordinary” times than these. Europe can only play a role if we are able to play it together, with a genuine common foreign and defence policy, which is, of course, peace oriented. Now more than ever, in Ukraine and the Middle East, is Europe the most directly affected interlocutor. Anyone who deludes themselves that a single European country can play a role alone has a very unrealistic view of the contemporary world. Moreover, Europe itself can only find in the Atlantic Alliance the core of the common defence of the West.
Still on the subject of Europe, the Italian Government is trying to negotiate with Brussels on the possibility of using flexibility in spending on energy as well, thus avoiding unilateral acts such as budgetary variance. So far, however, only cold answers have arrived…
I am totally opposed to any suggestion of unilateral action on the part of Italy. For Italy, for our companies and our citizens, it would be a catastrophic mistake: it would increase the spread and consequently the costs for companies and families. However, Europe needs to be aware of the special nature of the international moment and to know how to “be Europe” – that is, a true community of free persons and peoples – by adapting its financial rigour to the need to safeguard families and the productive fabric. I can see that, in the last few hours, there have been signs of dialogue and understanding. We are continuing to engage with Brussels and press for energy expenditure to be excluded from the Stability Pact, just as defence expenditure is.
