ROME – “Italy is very interested and will support any political and diplomatic initiative that could lead to a just peace for Ukraine. The entire Atlantic Alliance, all of the countries that want peace, will be ready to speak with Putin if he shows – truly and in concrete terms – that that is his genuine interest. I repeat, the time has come to begin working for a just peace for Ukraine”.
The Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister, Antonio Tajani, is commenting with Repubblica, in his office in Palazzo Chigi, on US President Joe Boden’s more open stance towards negotiating with Moscow. Minister Tajani is speaking on the eve of the Med Dialogues, meetings promoted by the Farnesina and the Italian Institute for International Political Studies (ISPI) which will bring leaders and ministers of the wider Mediterranean to Rome.
Is there any real hope of a diplomatic change of direction on Ukraine?
“Russia is continuing to attack civilians and infrastructure. It wants to use the winter against the population, making any type of dialogue impossible. We all want peace, but it must be attained through Kyiv’s independence, not its surrender. The responsibility for this situation lies entirely with Russia. The Kremlin must now give us concrete signals, instead of bombing the population”.
During the election campaign Salvini and Berlusconi asked for the delivery of arms to Kyiv to cease and for sanctions against Moscow to be reduced. Will the Meloni Government follow this line or stay with Zelensky?
“Italy will continue to follow the NATO and EU line because our strength lies in unity to enable Kyiv to negotiate a just peace”.
Did the decision to supply Aspide anti-aircraft missiles lead to tensions within the majority?
“At present we aren’t sending any other weapons. There’s a route managed by Defence for new arms, on the basis of Ukraine’s requests. However, we’re providing material to repair electricity infrastructure and have made our Civil Protection corps available for the cold weather emergency”.
Will it operate in Ukrainian territory?
“We await Ukraine’s requests. But if the cold weather leads to increased numbers of refugees we’re ready to help, including by taking in new refugees”.
Rome had an agreement with Paris to also supply modern Samp-T anti-missile systems. But after the arguments over migrants that hypothesis has been put to rest.
“It’s got nothing to do with the migrant dossier. There are technological compatibility problems with the Ukrainian systems”.
The Government broke off relations with France, our ally on the EU economic dossier, over the Ocean Viking, without obtaining anything on migrant flows. Was that the right decision?
“Relations with France were not broken off. We are raising a huge problem – the migrant situation – which needs to be resolved at the European level. So far we have obtained satisfactory responses. The Mediterranean cannot become a cemetery; we want to defeat the people smugglers. Italy will propose a Marshall Plan for Africa worth 100 billion, with a growth strategy capable of stopping the departures”.
What will you do when the next ship full of migrants arrives?
“Italy cannot be the only safe port where they can disembark. It’s not a question of being against France or Germany. It’s a question of finding an agreement on the overall management of the flows”.
Paris and Berlin are hosting more migrants than our country.
“When the asylum applications come from Syrian engineers, it’s easier”.
Do you want to move on from the Bossi-Fini [immigration law]?
“We need to stop irregular migrants and bring to Italy the people that we need”.
How?
“We’re working on a new ‘flow decree’, this time covering two or three years. The intention is to plan legal arrivals and training for people who want to come to Italy, and reward countries that block the departure of irregular migrants”.
How many people are we talking about?
“About 70,000 a year. But it’s all still being decided and we don’t yet have definite numbers”.
Will Italy be supplying new patrol boats to Libya?
“Yes, we’re ready to provide more”.
But the Libyans are accused of acts of violence. How do you plan to avoid them?
“Through political stability and monitoring of the territory”.
Does Italy support the premier in Tripoli, Dbeibah, or his rival, Bashagha?
“Italy has a historic relationship with Tripoli but the goal is and remains elections and national unity”.
Which are the political reference points in Europe for the Meloni Government: France and Germany or Poland and Hungary?
“It’s not a question of choosing between Paris and Warsaw. We’re a pro-European government”.
But pro-sovereignty too: will Rome support the EU treaty reform that will remove individual countries’ right of veto and increase European sovereignty to the detriment of national sovereignty?
“I’m in favour. We need to move from unanimity to a majority on foreign affairs, defence and energy”.
And what’s the government’s position?
“I haven’t heard any voices raised against it”.
Will Italy lose some of its EU funds in the next tranche of PNRR [National Recovery and Resilience Plan] funding? “We need to do everything possible to prevent that by moving faster on the objectives agreed with Brussels”.
Including by changing those parts of the budgetary adjustments that the EU isn’t entirely convinced about? “I don’t think there will be much to change. But if, after the dialogue with Brussels, some parts need to be changed, we’ll think about it”.
Does Rome support the proposed reform of the EU Stability Pact?
“The Pact is showing its age, a reform is due. But I wonder if its post-COVID reactivation should be further postponed, albeit with amendments”.
Did you discuss Regeni and Zaki with your Egyptian colleague?
“I asked for cooperation and I didn’t encounter any obstructiveness. I’m hoping for news sometime soon”.
Luigi Di Maio is on course to become the EU’s envoy to the Gulf. Is the government supporting him?
“We don’t oppose him, but his candidacy is an individual, not a government, one. I’ve already said that to Borrell: if he appoints him the decision is his alone”.
