Antonio Tajani’s last 48 hours are a good summary of the moment Italy is experiencing. On Friday he was in Athens to support the Italian diplomats hit by an attack, probably of an anarchist origin. Then he met with the EPP leadership, including Ursula von der Leyen. Yesterday, the Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister left for Rome to close, with Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, the Mediterranean Dialogues (MED) organised by Ispi. The immigration issue necessarily broke also in that meeting: “It is not a matter of ships, but of managing a phenomenon of huge dimensions”.
Minister Tajani, you are back from Athens where an Italian diplomat suffered an attack. Are Italians targeted?
“This will be ascertained by the police and the judiciary. They speak of an attack of an anarchist origin. We have to be vigilant; we have strengthened security. But we do not feel safe in our diplomatic offices”.
What does the Rome Conference on the Mediterranean show?
“Italy is again a protagonist in the enlarged Mediterranean. We are a bridge for peace and stability; with our knowledge in agriculture and our ability to do business we can help eradicate the great evils of our time: terrorism and human trafficking”.
It is an ambitious programme. Is there a recipe?
“We need to focus on economic growth. I was struck by what the President of Niger told me: the abandonment of dry lands by the poorest shepherds is a phenomenon of huge dimensions that must be countered. There the tragedy of migration is linked to climate change and terrorism, everything is closely interwoven and can only be resolved if we intervene globally”.
Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni called for the involvement of Europe, including on repatriations.
“The issue of immigration is not an Italy-France or France-Germany challenge. African countries are as concerned as we are. Conferences like this one show that immigration is a problem for everyone. It is a complex phenomenon; it is useless to reduce it to an issue of individual ships and ports”.
Of course, but considering how it went a month ago, it is legitimate to ask: what will happen when an NGO ship arrives in front of the Italian coast?
“We will see what happens, but we say that everyone must comply with the rules. Even the NGOs. Italy is a welcoming country. Interior Minister Piantedosi and I welcomed the refugees of the humanitarian corridors, organised by the Community of Sant’Egidio and the UNHCR, at the Fiumicino airport. By doing so we conveyed a political message”.
Will the arrival of the next ship be managed more diplomatically?
“We did not open the conflict. And now Europe is beginning to understand”.
The government says it wants to fight illegal immigration, but how is legal immigration managed?
‘We are developing new regulations. We are increasing the quotas for the countries with which we reach agreements, and rewarding the States that cooperate with us”.
We have been talking about European solutions for decades, why should we believe that they can really be found now, when the interests of Member States are so divergent?
“I have long been saying that the Dublin Treaty is outdated. This has always been an urgent issue, but now a series of factors are converging dangerously: terrorism, global warming, the economic crisis, the war. Winter will make it clear that dealing with migration flows will be inevitable”.
Are you optimistic?
‘Let us say I am determined’.
You met yesterday with the Foreign Minister of Tripoli, do you have a plan for Libya?
“We are looking for solutions to find stability and peace”.
How?
“Firstly with elections, which is the main road to unity”.
Let us talk about Ukraine: are the signs of the past few days real signs of peace?
“The attempts to open a dialogue are positive and it seems to me that President Biden has conveyed clear messages. But so far the Russian response has been negative: bombing civilians, hitting power grids and focusing on winter to weaken the population does not seem to me to be a way of showing good will. There can be no peace without Ukraine’s independence.
Are positions closer than they were a few weeks ago?
“I do not think so.”
Is Italy toeing the US line?
‘Italy has its own position, we are a member of Nato and the USA is the main ally. We do not want an all-out war, to the bitter end”.
Are you also concerned about the fate of the National Recovery and Resilience Plan (NRRP)?
“There is flexibility on the part of the European Commission. The NRRP was designed to deal with the Covid-19 emergency and in the meantime the war has broken out with all its consequences. There is therefore additional time to make things right. There is no need for demagoguery”.
It is your fellow Ministers who have expressed concern. “We will never make it,” they said.
“There is no need to scaremonger, I at least try never to be alarmist. I am pragmatic, we have to hurry, but without alarmism. We have enough time”.
Excuse me for asking a personal question, but how do you pay for your coffee?
“With an ATM card”.
The other Deputy Prime Minister, Matteo Salvini, says this is something for a “pain in the ass”. Regardless of style: is he wrong?
“This is a habit of mine. But there are many elderly people who do not have credit cards or foreigners who want to pay cash. There is no need for dogmatic positions. And saying that we want to favour tax evasion is childish”.
Will Parliament approve the finance bill by 31 December?
‘Yes, it will. The Parliamentary groups are acting responsibly. Forza Italia will table amendments to improve the rules on minimum pensions, youth employment and the transfer of credit in the case of the so-called Superbonus.”
Carlo Calenda actually says that Forza Italia is sabotaging the finance bill.
“But for goodness sake! Forget it, because I want to avoid personal polemics”.
Why were you not there when Calenda was received at Palazzo Chigi (the seat of the Council of Ministers and the official residence of the Prime Minister)? Did you avoid him?
“I was at the NATO Summit in Romania”.
