“An autonomous region in the east modelled on our South Tyrol”
Gentiloni: the military option would help Putin in the end, sanctions more effective
Interviewed by Paolo Mastrolilli, correspondent in New York
“We do not consider supplying weapons to Ukraine a good idea. We are hoping in the success of the negotiations; our South Tyrol region could provide a model for those eastern regions”. Minister Paolo Gentiloni is in New York, and is speaking on the eve of a crucial day on three fronts: the Moscow/Kiev crisis, Greece and Libya.
If today’s meeting in Minsk were to fail, President Obama is ready to arm the Ukranians. Why is that not a good idea?
«We respect the ideas and eventual decisions of the United States, which is our greatest ally, but a weapons escalation is the thing that would create the least difficulty for Putin».
What are the hurdles to overcome in the negotiations?
«I met in Munich with various colleagues of the countries involved in the negotiations, among them Russian minister Lavrov. Under discussion, in particular, are the ceasefire, withdrawal of the parties, border surveillance, the status of eastern Ukraine and amnesty. The situation has changed since the signing of the first Minsk accord, as the rebels have advanced. A point of equilibrium must be found which does not acknowledge conquests achieved by force».
What will Italy propose at the talks?
«The context is different, but I have spoken about our South Tyrol as a model. It is possible to find a solution that respects Ukraine sovereignty, maintains its borders and respects the rights of minorities, if Moscow is politically willing to accept it. It all still depends on what Russia decides».
If that is not positive will new sanctions be imposed?
«I wouldn’t want to say, for superstition’s sake, and also for the interests of Italy, but the economic terrain is the most effective for putting pressure on Russia».
Would you be in favour of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO?
«I think that would be a mistake. Italy participates in operations for the protection of the Baltic countries, but Ukraine’s objective is to have a relationship in which Russia does not present a threat, and making membership in NATO unnecessary as a consequence».
Obama wants authorisation from Congress to fight ISIS: Is Italy prepared for a more direct military intervention?
«We are determined to do what the coalition wants and the Parliament authorises. The situation may change according to necessities, but at the moment our contribution does not envisage participation in strikes, and this remains our position».
An Italian wanting to join ISIS has been arrested in Mosul: does terrorism pose a direct threat to our country?
«It does, and it is fed by anti-Christian symbolic and ideological content: The black Daesh (ISIS) flag placed on the obelisk in St. Peter’s Square, the conquest of Rome and Jerusalem — the darkest images of terrorism. There are fewer foreign fighters from Italy than from other countries, but the threat is not a quantitative one, and the problem of recruitment regards not only Iraq, Syria and Libya but the Balkans as well. We are monitoring the situation of that Italian and keeping our guard up high».
Are you willing to negotiate a solution with Assad?
«The strategy has three central points: the military one, which has blocked the advance of Daesh, ahead of an eventual campaign to retake Mosul; the cultural one, where an open confrontation of terrorism has begun from within the Islamic community: the positions taken by the King of Jordan and the Egyptian president, for example. Then there is the political point, and on this, efforts must continue in Iraq toward the greater inclusion of Kurds and Sunnis in the government. We are supporting UN efforts to suspend the fighting in areas such as Aleppo, but negotiations are needed with the regime on a process of transition that includes the elimination of Assad and other crucial figures without wiping out everything».
ISIS is advancing into Libya also: how can they be stopped?
«UN envoy Leon is scheduled today to hold the first meeting in Libya of all the parties to the conflict, that is to say the Tobruk component partly legitimised by the elections, as well as those of Misrata and Tripoli. If this reconciliation works, Italy will be disposed to participate in monitoring or peacekeeping. If it fails, the terrorist threat that has thus far been limited to Derna and some areas of the south will worsen considerably, and become a serious concern to us, being three to four hours’ navigation time away».
Are you worried that Greece will withdraw from the euro?
«Europe is not risking collapse, and I believe that with flexibility on both sides the eventuality of a “Grexit”» can be avoided.
Have we refused arbitration in the case of the Marines?
«The Indian Supreme Court has been presented with Italy’s latest requests and political dialogue is now under way on a solution acceptable to both parties».
